Episode 2

S3E2 - Guest Feature - Mat - Education system, FDA, Depression and more!

Join us as we delve into the depths of the systems that control us, the FDA, depression, and more!

If you or a friend is experiencing suicidal thoughts, please reach out to the National Suicide hotline, they are staffed 24/7 and have a wonderful team there to help, or just listen. 800-273-8255.

Transcript available on https://cricketscampfire.com/

Transcript
Ben:

Hey there and welcome to crickets campfire.

Ben:

I'm Ben, and I'll be your host today.

Ben:

We have a guest who is featured on our website at crickets campfire.com.

Ben:

Be sure to look for crickets campfire on discord link is on our website as well,

Ben:

and connect with us now to introduce our guest today, Matt, over to you.

Mat:

Hey Ben and listeners.

Mat:

This is Matt, and I'm looking forward to being here with you guys today.

Ben:

Awesome Matt, and to give our listeners a bit of background, Matt

Ben:

has expertise in physics and pure mathematics and his breadth of knowledge

Ben:

is quite impressive actually, but mostly he's just fun to talk to Matt.

Ben:

Is there anything you'd like to tell the listeners?

Mat:

I have a diverse working background from many different aspects of life.

Mat:

I've worked in a bunch of different industries, done

Mat:

a ton of different things.

Mat:

I've owned a few businesses and I've traveled to a lot of different places in

Mat:

the U S I'd say probably traveled to more places than I haven't, which I think gives

Mat:

me a pretty well-rounded idea of different aspects of our own culture, as well

Mat:

as other people that we lived next to.

Mat:

And we talk to everyday across the U S I try to keep myself as well-rounded,

Mat:

as I can with an open mind, but not so much that my brain necessarily falls out.

Mat:

I do enjoy math, physics, philosophy, politics, chemistry, any, anything,

Mat:

it's all part of the same tree.

Mat:

And as long as it keeps its interest to me, Kind of hard not to do, but I am

Mat:

excited to be a part of the show today.

Mat:

I do hope that my point of view at the very least helps somebody

Mat:

somewhere ask themselves a question and maybe go look it up for themselves,

Mat:

potentially something that they haven't ever thought about before.

Ben:

Awesome.

Ben:

Thanks Matt.

Ben:

One more thing, Matt and I were talking just before the podcast.

Ben:

So I wanted to catch you up on the conversation also.

Ben:

Pardon the scatter brained conversation.

Ben:

It all relates to one big thing.

Ben:

If you just hang in there past the first 30 minutes, I promise

Ben:

you it'll be worth your time.

Ben:

So yeah, we're basically discussing the psychology and how our current system

Ben:

here in the U S anyway is set up for failure on multiple different levels.

Ben:

And we are nowhere near what I expect of ourselves.

Ben:

For instance, I have been trying to receive mental health care

Ben:

for the last three months.

Ben:

At least in fact, it may have even been longer than that from both

Ben:

my doctors and seeking it out.

Ben:

Personally, I cannot find a mental health care professional that can

Ben:

help me because they're so full.

Ben:

There's no room in anywhere I've tried.

Ben:

And then we were talking about that.

Ben:

And as we got into that, you were saying that the entire

Ben:

system is built for failure.

Mat:

Yeah.

Mat:

It's kind of, it's the inevitable outcome of that system.

Mat:

So if you want to know what a system is for what it's built

Mat:

for, look at what it produces.

Mat:

Don't listen to what people tell you it's for.

Mat:

Don't look at what it seems like it might be built for a system.

Mat:

Does what it does.

Mat:

It outputs, what outputs with whatever input you provide to it.

Mat:

So whether or not we're consciously making that decision or it's

Mat:

by design from people up top.

Mat:

However you want to look at that.

Mat:

Our system produces an unintelligent education system.

Mat:

It produces people that are unhealthy.

Mat:

It makes it harder to get a hold of products that are healthier

Mat:

for you, both food and topological products that go on your skin.

Mat:

Everything causes cancer.

Mat:

Nowadays our FDA is a laughing stock.

Mat:

It's a joke, but you want to know what our system is for?

Mat:

That's what it's for.

Mat:

What it produces.

Ben:

So we're all kind of just stuck in the system.

Ben:

And I know I've heard that our school system is designed for warehouse

Ben:

manufacturing, standing in line, taking orders, not questioning judgment

Ben:

understanding systems to a minimal degree so that you can potentially

Ben:

flourish, but never actually flourish.

Ben:

And so is there anything else you want to add to that, that I missed?

Mat:

Well, you're not taught how to be a CEO in school.

Ben:

That's true.

Ben:

That's true.

Ben:

Especially in business management,

Mat:

You're, you're taught how to be.

Mat:

It's a clerical system still.

Mat:

We're still going off of the old school clerical system.

Mat:

So anytime you have an educational system in a public sense, you're going

Mat:

to get a little bit less of an education than you would have in a private sense.

Mat:

Cause you're paying a little bit more for that.

Mat:

But as far as your education goes, You're in a system that's built

Mat:

for replacing somebody that's already in the workforce, right?

Mat:

Like you don't have to do anything outside of your job.

Mat:

You don't have to do anything outside of this niche that you're

Mat:

training yourself for whether that's college or just basic education.

Mat:

It's an education system.

Mat:

It's an indoctrination system.

Mat:

Whether or not you choose to look at it that way.

Mat:

That's what it is like.

Mat:

You're, you're going into the system and you're coming out a certain way.

Mat:

You're not coming out to be a CEO.

Mat:

You're not coming out to be on top.

Mat:

You're coming out to work for those people.

Mat:

And intrinsically, whenever you go into one of those systems, if you're a worker

Mat:

for a major corporation, the work that you're providing to that corporation is

Mat:

less than what you're getting paid for.

Mat:

If it wasn't that wouldn't be a good business decision for that

Mat:

corporation and or the product that that corporation is selling is worth

Mat:

less than what it's being marketed.

Ben:

Well, okay.

Ben:

So then that brings me into like a real life topical situation that I've

Ben:

been in at multiple different companies that I don't really wish to name

Ben:

because I don't want to be sued, but in those corporations, if I've ever

Ben:

drawn outside of the line, I've found that that is extremely discouraged.

Ben:

In fact, it's penalized you're not producing a certain amount now because

Ben:

you're thinking outside the box.

Ben:

So as a result, we have to put you on a disciplinary or reform plan because your

Ben:

performance isn't what we expect it to be.

Ben:

But wait, I'm according to the numbers, still performing

Ben:

exactly what it should be.

Ben:

In fact, I'm outperforming my peers.

Ben:

Well, that didn't matter.

Ben:

It wasn't that I was outperforming my peers.

Ben:

What mattered was I wasn't keeping my mouth shut.

Ben:

And so if I didn't follow the prompts on screen, exactly saying those exact

Ben:

words, I would fail that specific instance of support or whatever.

Ben:

It didn't matter that the customer's issue was resolved in

Ben:

three minutes instead of eight.

Ben:

It was that I didn't follow their process.

Mat:

And unfortunately, there might be certain reasons for that, like on the

Mat:

bad side of things, if you look at it, it's like, no, just stay in your niche.

Mat:

Don't go outside of that.

Mat:

You know, we, we don't want you to grow.

Mat:

That's one aspect of it.

Mat:

But if that's not the case, there could be a legal aspect of that too.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

So like, if you're working for a bank, there might be certain things that you

Mat:

absolutely have to say to the customer.

Mat:

Like you can't go outside of that or else your company could potentially be sued.

Mat:

So they give you these really direct guidelines to follow.

Mat:

And if you don't follow those, then that could be bad for the company as a whole.

Mat:

So.

Mat:

From the standpoint of a company or a corporation, there might be certain

Mat:

reasons for that, that are beneficial to everybody as a whole, or for them to

Mat:

be able to even work in that business.

Mat:

But from an individual standpoint, if there's no legal repercussions for going

Mat:

outside of your little niche there and providing an additional service, which

Mat:

helps the customers and intrinsically would help them stay a customer

Mat:

because they appreciate the customer service that you provided to them.

Mat:

Like what's wrong with that, right.

Mat:

But there's a lot of situations where that's frowned upon.

Ben:

I see.

Ben:

And so then what corporations do is they twist that around and say, well,

Ben:

anybody can be sued in the us anymore.

Ben:

So we have to make sure that you're staying on this specific thing, because

Ben:

if you color outside those lines, there's 158 different rules you need to

Ben:

adhere to because you did those things.

Mat:

I mean, you could be sued for practically anything.

Mat:

It's just, how long can they keep you in the court and keep draining your pocket.

Mat:

Right.

Mat:

Even if it's a, a fraudulent court case, even if it's not going to go through,

Mat:

it's not going to pan out, you're still gonna have to pay court fees.

Ben:

Right.

Ben:

Right.

Ben:

Exactly.

Ben:

And so then becomes the question of when is individually individuality encouraged

Ben:

and should individuality be discouraged?

Ben:

And is that why the system that we're in right now is broken

Ben:

to the degree that it is?

Mat:

Well, if everybody was an entrepreneur and capable of free,

Mat:

intelligent thought and creativity, then we'd have a much different world than

Mat:

it probably wouldn't favor a few people.

Mat:

It would probably favor everyone.

Ben:

And so is that the challenge that it favors everyone and that's

Ben:

why people don't want to change.

Ben:

Is it socialism?

Ben:

Is it Darwinism?

Ben:

Is it, what is it that's causing us to be like, well, we prefer it this way.

Ben:

This is, this is what we want.

Mat:

Well, if you are on top and you control what happens from

Mat:

that perspective, then why would you want anything else to happen?

Ben:

What I'm trying to figure out though, is all of this makes logical

Ben:

and philosophical and theoretical sense, but how do we change the system?

Ben:

We can't, we can't go up against the billionairs.

Mat:

There's a really big issue that I don't know as though we

Mat:

really have a workaround for as humans and it's everybody knows it.

Mat:

And it's really, really simple.

Mat:

We don't always think about it, but imagine whatever you're good at,

Mat:

it doesn't matter what that job is, whatever you're really, really good

Mat:

at, you know, a lot more about that situation than most normal people do.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

So like, you know, the ups and downs of your trade, you know,

Mat:

what works, what doesn't work, but not everybody else knows that.

Mat:

So there's a degree as human beings for us to be able to take a situation, simplify

Mat:

it, be like, why can't this just be done?

Mat:

Why can't we just do this?

Mat:

This would be so much easier if we could just do this, but there's

Mat:

so many factors that we just don't understand on an individual basis.

Mat:

And that's okay.

Mat:

That's why we have that's part of the reason why we have a system that

Mat:

is based off of specialists, right?

Mat:

So we have specialists that are really good at these things and they help

Mat:

drive this aspect of our economy or our social structure in a certain direction.

Mat:

But then the information that's actually put out there what's

Mat:

approved, what's not approved.

Mat:

That can be controlled.

Mat:

And if you can control that, then you can control how the

Mat:

system is steered as a whole.

Mat:

You can't control the experiments that the specialist or the scientists or the

Mat:

practices that certain people are doing in certain areas, but you can make laws,

Mat:

you can make jurisdictional references, you can create court cases that support

Mat:

certain things over different things.

Ben:

So this brings me into an interesting reference then Kyle

Ben:

Hill, have you heard of him?

Mat:

Potentially I'm bad with names.

Ben:

He's a YouTuber, looks like Thor.

Mat:

Oh yes.

Ben:

Very knowledgeable, very good graphics.

Ben:

And as YouTube videos.

Ben:

Yeah.

Ben:

Anyway, so this guy, Kyle Hill, he did a segment on info hazards

Ben:

and I never really considered that aspect of bringing this back to.

Ben:

What people learn is how you control them.

Ben:

I never considered this, but info hazards can be as simple as a blanket

Ben:

statement about how nuclear physics works.

Ben:

And he did quite some interesting thought patterns on that.

Ben:

Where if everybody knew these things, then there would be chaos.

Ben:

If you knew that by inserting a phrasiology about how you build a nuclear

Ben:

bomb, that would cause challenges.

Mat:

So that, that plays directly off of cognitive dissonance as human beings.

Mat:

So whenever what we're doing is in stark contrast to what we believe, then we get

Mat:

this thing called cognitive dissonance.

Mat:

It's a very uncomfortable mental state mental feeling, and we try to

Mat:

do everything that we can as human beings to stop that from happening,

Mat:

whether consciously or unconsciously.

Mat:

We'll fight something mentally, verbally, whatever, if necessary, to make sure

Mat:

that we're in a position where we're not feeling cognitive dissonance.

Mat:

And one of the struggles with that is that if you're told information

Mat:

enough, you'll start to believe it.

Mat:

So if you're just force fed, this is what the truth is.

Mat:

This is what the truth is.

Mat:

This is what the truth is.

Mat:

Eventually you're going to have an inclination to believe

Mat:

that that's what the truth is.

Mat:

If you don't have any information that tells you otherwise.

Mat:

So if you're presented with new information, that goes against what you've

Mat:

been pre-programmed to believe you're going to have an instant conflict with

Mat:

cognitive dissonance, and you're going to choose to fight, to save the system.

Mat:

That's actually giving you that cognitive dissonance opposed to coming to the truth.

Ben:

And that then becomes when do we adopt new technology?

Ben:

You can apply that to basic everyday life.

Ben:

When do you change the oil in your car?

Ben:

When do you change to a new car?

Ben:

Do you change to a new car because your current car has one challenge or.

Ben:

Do you want to change from the old reliable vehicle to a

Ben:

potentially new unstable vehicle?

Ben:

Now that probably doesn't apply to very many people, but I buy used vehicles

Ben:

and I pay cash for all my vehicles.

Ben:

So that definitely applies in my life.

Mat:

You can see that with appliances too, if you want to go that route,

Mat:

opposed to like, you know, information, education, if you wanted to go the

Mat:

route of like appliances or hardware, you can look at older hardware

Mat:

stuff that's, you know, made back in the fifties or sixties is tanks.

Mat:

Like they've been around forever older vehicles, older microwaves,

Mat:

like it might use older technology.

Ben:

But what then happens when you introduce a form of chaos

Ben:

to this standardized theory or subscription or model of education?

Ben:

For instance, now we have the internet and I can go learn nuclear physics on my

Ben:

own, through a Libby course or whatever.

Ben:

No, not libby.

Ben:

What is LinkedIn's learning platform anyway, probably LinkedIn learning.

Mat:

I'd imagine that you find changes in the system as a whole, right?

Mat:

So as individuals are able to auto didactically change themselves

Mat:

and become smarter on a particular subject, then intrinsically the

Mat:

whole system is going to change.

Mat:

I mean, you've seen how our entire world has changed incredibly since

Mat:

the internet has came out and that's been within our lifetime, right?

Mat:

Like, look at how much has changed because of that.

Mat:

And that's opening up of the freedom of the sharing of information

Mat:

between human beings, all across.

Mat:

And it continues to change, but what, what then becomes an issue there?

Mat:

And we're going to slip into a slightly different topic.

Mat:

If we follow through with this is who controls, what information is

Mat:

presented, what information you encounter, how often you encounter

Mat:

it and what that information is.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

So the easiest example of that is you go do a Google search.

Mat:

What are you going to click on?

Mat:

It's not going to be something on the 15th or the 16th page.

Mat:

It's going to be something in the first, second, maybe the third page,

Mat:

but probably the first page for 90% of the people that do a search.

Mat:

Okay.

Mat:

Why are those things showing up on the first page?

Mat:

Is it because they're the most popular or is it because there's an algorithm that's

Mat:

doing something that maybe you don't know?

Ben:

Oh, I can absolutely 110% tell you there's an algorithm.

Ben:

We don't know that's going on there.

Ben:

In fact, it is widely published that we.

Ben:

Do not know why Google ranks certain webpages to the top.

Ben:

And in fact, they have set the entire system up to be that way, because

Ben:

they don't want web developers to game the search engines and

Ben:

make their post come to the top.

Mat:

So think about that.

Mat:

Why wouldn't that be public knowledge?

Mat:

Why wouldn't it be public knowledge that 90% of the information

Mat:

that's being forced on you?

Mat:

Because once again, if you're exposed to information repeatedly, you're going

Mat:

to start to believe that information.

Mat:

If you don't have anything that directly goes against it, according

Mat:

to your beliefs or according to what you already know or think.

Mat:

So, if you're constantly being fed information from the top one or two

Mat:

pages from Google, why, why is it, why is it the same for all people?

Mat:

If you do a certain search, why when you start to type something

Mat:

in, are the suggestions popping up?

Mat:

Might they have something in common, those suggestions that you typing in,

Mat:

but why is it automatically suggesting that you might want to search for this

Mat:

when there's information that's out.

Mat:

That's just beyond our capability, as human beings,

Mat:

to be able to process it all.

Mat:

We have to create AI to be able to process all the information that's out

Mat:

there when there's that much information.

Mat:

Why are you only exposed to one page of information?

Mat:

Why are you?

Mat:

It doesn't make any sense or maybe

Ben:

It does well, okay.

Ben:

So here comes the counter argument on that.

Ben:

It does make sense that you're only exposed to the first page of that because

Ben:

we, as humans are not designed and, or nor are we capable of ingesting even

Ben:

the first page these days, why don't we can't even focus on the first page.

Mat:

So let's play off of that.

Mat:

If that's true, who decides what information you get exposed to?

Ben:

Well, clearly the fundamental understanding of that would be money.

Ben:

Any reason it's got to all come back to money.

Ben:

So who controls it is fluctuating.

Ben:

I'd imagine.

Ben:

I'd imagine we can, as consumers we are dictating who controls that by

Ben:

using duck, duck, go by trying to encourage apple, to not filter all of

Ben:

our stuff and not open up our phones.

Mat:

Those are movements against the system though, right?

Ben:

They are.

Ben:

But we, as there's, there is a small percentage of human beings who are privacy

Ben:

centric and those small percentage of, of privacy centric human beings are

Ben:

starting to grow and starting to expand.

Ben:

And I can recognize this.

Ben:

Two years ago.

Ben:

I didn't care if Google had all my photos.

Ben:

I didn't care if they knew all the names of every person on those photos.

Ben:

But today I'm sitting here going, I don't know that I want to continue to give

Ben:

Google all of the people in my life.

Mat:

Yeah.

Mat:

When you can submit a photo to a certain big tech company, whether it's a social

Mat:

media company or a search engine, they can look in that photo and they can use AI to

Mat:

pick out items that are in your background to maybe try to determine your spending

Mat:

habits and try to market that to you.

Mat:

So they have an entire case file on you for whatever.

Mat:

Whatever institution that you're currently utilizing, whether it's

Mat:

a social media platform or not.

Mat:

So that when you're receiving information via ads, it's directly tailored to you.

Ben:

Oh God, I didn't even connect the dots to that.

Ben:

Picking out background objects.

Ben:

I've I've never even considered that.

Ben:

That was not on my radar, but now it is.

Ben:

And you've made me so much more anxious.

Ben:

Holy crap.

Ben:

It's...

Mat:

I'm sure that you've probably had a situation in your life.

Mat:

I have everything in my life that I can lock down, locked down, whether it's

Mat:

my phone's ability to listen to me, whether it's a social search engines,

Mat:

doesn't matter what it is or there's the internet browser that I use, because

Mat:

I would put myself on that gradient of people that want to make sure that I'm

Mat:

in control of what I do with my life.

Mat:

And the more that other people learn about me, the less and less I'm

Mat:

actually in control of that situation.

Mat:

So I'm sure that you've probably had the situation in your life,

Mat:

whether you realize it or not, where you've been talking around your cell

Mat:

phone and you might receive an ad for that very thing later that day.

Ben:

Oh yes.

Ben:

And that's so widely published as a huge trope.

Ben:

But when I was not in my privacy centric mode, I looked at that and said, so

Ben:

what they'd get that information some other way, whether it be my spending

Ben:

habits or my super saver coupon, barcode that they scan into the system

Ben:

because it's cheaper to buy stuff, letting them track you, then not for.

Ben:

Yes, I'm targeting grocery stores there,

Mat:

But what are they, what else are they listening to?

Mat:

If they can hear that, but you might have something in your house that you

Mat:

can call its name and it will react to you and you can play music with it and

Mat:

search things and buy things online.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

I'm not going to say exactly what that is because there's multiple of them.

Mat:

But if you have something like that in your house, when you call

Mat:

its name, it responds to you.

Mat:

How does it know that you said its name it's constantly listening to you?

Mat:

It has to constantly be recording every bit of information that

Mat:

you say around it inside of it.

Mat:

Otherwise it wouldn't be able to discern what you're saying

Mat:

and what you're not saying.

Mat:

It has to put that information against information.

Mat:

That's already been coded inside of it so that you know, that you call its name.

Mat:

And if it's doing that, every single conversation you have in your house around

Mat:

one of those items is being recorded.

Mat:

It is being.

Mat:

Now whether or not that's being kept is another thing.

Ben:

And see that's where my tech centric mine comes in.

Ben:

It is inefficient improper, and there, there is, there is a level there where,

Ben:

okay, there is one specific tech giant that definitely loves to sell products

Ben:

and that's their entire business.

Ben:

And they happen to make one of these voice activated devices.

Ben:

There have been cases that have been proven, and it has been gone to court

Ben:

where this company was storing recordings and let anybody within the company access

Ben:

those recordings without reason without justification, without clarification,

Ben:

without reprise on the one end, my tech aspect of my mind goes, yeah,

Ben:

they, they definitely could be doing.

Ben:

But it doesn't make logical sense because you're spending a massive

Ben:

amount of money for storage.

Ben:

But on the other end of that spectrum, I forgot.

Ben:

We've now shifted into this reality where, because you store more, the system is

Ben:

now becoming capable of discerning more.

Ben:

It can understand because by default, by having more, we must

Ben:

be able to sift through more.

Ben:

I always looked at it as my more out there, I'm publishing hundreds and

Ben:

hundreds of gigs worth of data a day.

Mat:

You're also assuming that this isn't against you, but I'm just saying

Mat:

people in general, when you think about this, when you're actually hearing this

Mat:

information and interpreting it, you might just be thinking that this information

Mat:

is in the hands of this company alone.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

How easy do you think it is?

Mat:

Or how hard do you think it is to hack your home network?

Mat:

And how do you think that that device is actually connecting to the internet?

Mat:

What do you think would happen if somebody got the ability to actually breach your

Mat:

network and has been doing it for months?

Mat:

Like what could they be listening to?

Mat:

How could they use that against you?

Ben:

So I worked in the tech support industry, very familiar, and I

Ben:

have ancidotal and commisurate experience, packing up all of this

Ben:

information here happens all the time.

Ben:

Every day, every day, you there's, there's millions of computers compromised.

Ben:

Now, granted, those who compromise computers are not typically.

Ben:

There's a very special asterisk next to that are not typically looking

Ben:

to capture such a large amount of information that they need to store.

Ben:

What they want are files pictures.

Ben:

Sometimes they'll go directly for the money and say, I want to in order to

Ben:

decrypt your hard drive, you need to spend 48 Bitcoin, whatever, but it

Ben:

happens on a mass scale every day.

Ben:

Millions of devices are infected.

Ben:

That's what ransomware that's what viruses are.

Ben:

They're infecting your network.

Ben:

They don't just infect your computer.

Ben:

I had a ransomware.

Ben:

Pop-up where I was the lead tech coordinator for a very, very

Ben:

large, we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

Ben:

It was a conversation between me and another MSP support team

Ben:

that we rely on for big projects.

Ben:

And then it became their insurance agency, their lawyers, 14

Ben:

different financial advisors.

Ben:

I mean, it was just this huge deal because their server was managed by another

Ben:

company that put that server there so that they can work and look up cars.

Ben:

So there's this automobile franchise, a big company out here, automobile, whatever

Ben:

you, you can call them whatever you want.

Ben:

It's just a company.

Ben:

Their job is to make software, to track vehicles, to sell.

Ben:

And they do that by deploying physical servers at locations

Ben:

across the United States.

Ben:

But what happened is their dedicated server.

Ben:

These people deployed at this site, used a common password as the administrator.

Ben:

Not only was it a common password?

Ben:

They used the same password across all of their servers.

Ben:

Their ransomware came in through that.

Mat:

There's a lot of situations where that's actually happening, it's happening

Mat:

right now with certain things that I'm not going to go into detail with, but

Mat:

that exact situation that people using the same password across an entire

Mat:

network of things that needs to be extremely secure, but has not been,

Ben:

I understand.

Ben:

And you probably don't know all of my work history.

Ben:

In fact, nobody probably does.

Ben:

Who's listening now, but I went into dentist's office.

Ben:

I've been in periodontal offices where they do surgery, orthodontal surgery,

Ben:

and I was support for those guys.

Ben:

I've been in small government offices and those offices use

Ben:

the same or similar equipments.

Ben:

We're not just talking military.

Ben:

I mean, military is fairly decent as far as I remember it.

Mat:

If you, if you have it out there in the world, And if it gets transferred

Mat:

on any kind of a system electronically over the internet or within even a

Mat:

closed system that has access to the internet, there's nothing, unless we

Mat:

had a fully, and this is what kind of backs into my area that I enjoy here.

Mat:

Physics, unless you have a system that is based on entanglement, quantum

Mat:

entanglement, as of right now, you will not have a fully secured system.

Mat:

And quantum entanglement is where you have two particles that share

Mat:

the same wave function intrinsically.

Mat:

And so anything that you do to one of the particles will

Mat:

instantly affect the other particle regardless of their distance across.

Mat:

They are tethered by time, obviously.

Mat:

So if you do something to want to happens to the other instantly, but

Mat:

you could have a particle theoretically here on earth, do something to it.

Mat:

And it would be affected all the way in the Andromeda galaxy Einstein

Mat:

called it spooky action at a distance.

Mat:

And we've only just in 2012, I think Weinberg was his name.

Mat:

One of the physicists won the Nobel prize for being able to observe a quantum system

Mat:

without actually disrupting the wave state of two entangled particles, which

Mat:

is huge because that means we can now read the information from the particle

Mat:

without destroying that connection.

Mat:

And what's important about that is you can't hack in a tangled

Mat:

network of particles, two particles that are entangled.

Mat:

You can't discern the information from outside of either two of those particles.

Mat:

It's not like tapping into a phone line or something like that.

Mat:

I see.

Mat:

So unless you're in that kind of a network, it's going to be extremely

Mat:

hard potentially in some situations.

Mat:

I mean, you can use proxies and VPNs and stuff like that,

Mat:

but nothing is invincible.

Ben:

And so that came back to my fundamental original argument

Ben:

of this whole thing, which is I published for a while.

Ben:

Hundreds of gigs of data about me a day, because I didn't care.

Ben:

Yeah.

Ben:

I do the goo.

Ben:

I had Google, I had Alexa, I have Siri, all three of those devices put together.

Ben:

I'm sure I'm publishing at least a couple of gig an hour.

Ben:

And then you've got your photos and your videos and your location data,

Ben:

and what device is active right now.

Ben:

What application is running right now?

Ben:

What are you doing inside of that application?

Ben:

Sometimes tracking your mouse movements directly inside of websites.

Ben:

There's just so much that, that it's very difficult to keep yourself protected from.

Ben:

So I looked at it as that, whatever I'm publishing hundreds

Ben:

of gigs a day, it doesn't matter.

Ben:

They're going to have to sift through that information if they really want it.

Ben:

I don't have anything to hide or whatever, you know, you can, you can call that.

Ben:

I don't have anything to hide the reality for me now.

Ben:

They are driving with that data.

Ben:

And I find that I would classify myself as fairly impervious to mental manipulations

Ben:

because I've been exposed to it so much and identified it and recognized it.

Ben:

I am starting to recognize that there are subconscious shifts that

Ben:

I am not capable of controlling, due to outside influence period.

Mat:

Why don't you learn about those things in school, right?

Mat:

Why isn't there an entire course throughout your primary education until

Mat:

you get to college, that's designed to teach you how you're capable of

Mat:

being manipulated as a human being.

Mat:

To help you not to help you be able to manipulate other people, but to be able to

Mat:

identify when that's happening to you, why don't we know that that's such a basic,

Mat:

fundamental understanding of ourselves?

Mat:

Like what you were just going over there.

Mat:

Take that and take a step back to a previous conversation here.

Mat:

Why aren't we ever taught that information?

Mat:

Why don't we know about that?

Ben:

Because it'd be detrimental to potentially society.

Ben:

I don't know why we're not taught that specifically, but I can, I

Ben:

can imagine the justification.

Ben:

Do the justifications outweigh info hazard.

Ben:

Do the justifications outweigh hiding that information and making it not relevant

Mat:

I guess I can't speak on it cause I don't know enough about it.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

Like there's so many ways that people can be influenced and manipulated

Mat:

and augmented psychologically, physically just the repetition.

Mat:

But in the end, I believe this is my own personal belief.

Mat:

That knowledge is power, right?

Mat:

So if you know that something exists, you can take steps to

Mat:

mitigate its effects on you.

Mat:

If you don't know that it exists, you can't do anything

Mat:

to defend yourself against it.

Mat:

I mean, if the population is a whole new, that different marketing

Mat:

tactics existed to get them to buy things, do you think that they would

Mat:

be inclined to buy those things if they knew exactly how they worked?

Ben:

Right.

Ben:

But the challenge then becomes, okay, great.

Ben:

So I recognize and understand that the pods are designed to emphasize a culture

Ben:

that doesn't want to spend the 30 seconds.

Ben:

It takes to measure out an ingredient for washing your clothes, washing your dishes.

Ben:

That's why tide, pods and dishwasher pods have come to exist because people

Ben:

don't want to spend the time to do it the right way, but I lost my train.

Ben:

I lost my train of thought,

Mat:

Well, I can kind of pick up from you there.

Mat:

So I would agree with that.

Mat:

Like, it's, there's a lot of menial things that are being taken care of in

Mat:

a very beneficial way in our society.

Mat:

But how is that marketed to us?

Mat:

And do we know whether or not that's actually good for us?

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

So let's take your laundry detergent example, your tide pod example there.

Mat:

So if you have a tide pod has a certain amount of ingredients in there.

Mat:

You're given this product and told that this is good for you,

Mat:

and that this is what you need to use to wash your dishes with.

Mat:

And this is how much you need.

Mat:

So to use that much material to clean your dishes, what if it

Mat:

only takes half of that to do it?

Mat:

What if you're being sold an overabundance at an inflated

Mat:

price, just so that they move more.

Ben:

I watched, I don't know if you've ever seen it.

Ben:

Technology connections, guys retrospect.

Ben:

Anyway, he just did a segment on dishwasher, pods, and he said

Ben:

you are using too much dish soap.

Ben:

In fact, unless your water is extremely soft in the United States, you should not

Ben:

even be filling your dishwasher cup fully.

Ben:

And those pods are determined right on the edge of being soft water, not hard water

Ben:

and soft water is a lot harder to combat.

Ben:

When you've got solvents as a result, it makes the soap less effective.

Ben:

So they have to put in more

Mat:

And all of that's going back into our water system.

Ben:

Oh, yeah, you're paying for it on both ends.

Ben:

Actually.

Ben:

We're paying for it on multiple ends.

Ben:

We pay for it when we get it, we pay for it when we put it in the dishwasher,

Ben:

because now we have to run dishwasher loads twice because it's less effective

Ben:

because when you put too much soap in a dishwasher, by the way, it doesn't work.

Ben:

And if you don't use enough, it doesn't work.

Ben:

It has to be a specific amount, which is why they have fill lines.

Ben:

Oh.

Ben:

And they have the presoak for a reason too, which you can't do on pods.

Ben:

Okay, great.

Ben:

So now we've got, we're putting it in the dishwasher.

Ben:

We're using triple the amount of product we should be using because it has to have

Ben:

that triple amount because otherwise some other people would complain and then we're

Ben:

dumping it into the drains to be treated at wastewater facilities, which by the

Ben:

way, we're paying for, when you pay your water bill and then what we're paying

Ben:

for it to be extracted from the ground as well, maybe in terms of climate change,

Mat:

You might be paying for it as far as your health goes to.

Mat:

Cause how much of that is actually getting filtered out and then the

Mat:

end, you're making this decision.

Mat:

We're going to keep tying this back to our, all of our other conversations.

Mat:

Cause everything that we're talking about on here right now goes together.

Mat:

It all goes together.

Mat:

Every single bit of it.

Mat:

Why are you buying that?

Mat:

You think that it's okay.

Mat:

Why do you think it's okay because it's being forced down your throat.

Mat:

There's not many other options.

Mat:

You go to the store, it's either this or that.

Mat:

Right.

Mat:

And then there's very, very few other options that are available.

Mat:

There's 8 billion people on the planet and we got like six or

Mat:

seven options for dish soap.

Mat:

Like what?

Ben:

Oh, by the way, linking this back to money.

Ben:

Corporations buy the shelf space.

Mat:

I wouldn't doubt it.

Ben:

Yeah.

Ben:

They literally do no that that's how grocery stores work.

Ben:

You, you buy an end cap.

Ben:

If you want to feature your product on labor day.

Ben:

For instance, I want 48 inches of the top.

Mat:

You get a product, we'll go back to dish soap.

Mat:

You can do this with anything, you get a product and you want to

Mat:

know a little bit more about it.

Mat:

What do you do?

Mat:

Like how do you look up information about that?

Mat:

If you're truly wanting to be informed, at least in the beginning to

Mat:

understand something, what do you do?

Mat:

You do a Google search what's happening.

Mat:

You're getting the first page or two of results and you're taking that information

Mat:

and adding it to your knowledgebase.

Ben:

Now not only is Google the evil corporation here, because or

Ben:

let's let's just call them evil.

Ben:

I'm not saying you're evil, Google don't Sue me.

Mat:

They're a catchphrase is don't be evil, right?

Ben:

That's right.

Mat:

It might just be an intrinsic property of the system that we live in, or

Mat:

it could be something that's controlled.

Ben:

But here's a further example of that and you were talking about

Ben:

cognitive dissonance and how that data conflicts with our core knowledge base.

Ben:

Well, think about the stances that we as humans take right now, you and I

Ben:

have distinct views on different topics.

Ben:

You're going to search for COVID vaccine proof, challenges, whatever

Ben:

you want to fill in the blank.

Ben:

I'm going to search for COVID death toll.

Ben:

And because I'm searching for COVID death toll, they may be pushing vaccines to me.

Ben:

And because you're searching for information about how the vaccine is

Ben:

manufactured or built, or what RNA strands interact with each other, you're

Ben:

going to be fed information about that and the death toll isn't going to be

Ben:

there and you're not going to be pushed towards vaccines, and you're not going

Ben:

to be because you're digging in and you're trying to find information just

Ben:

the, the subtle shift in a word changes the results on such a dramatic scale.

Mat:

But are the quality of those results different or are the inclination of

Mat:

the end result of the search results?

Mat:

The same.

Mat:

So like if we search two things on the same topic in a spirit of, of

Mat:

being different, like we believe different things on that topic.

Mat:

Are we going to be shown information that pertains to what we choose to believe?

Mat:

Or are we going to be shown information that would tend to incline us towards

Mat:

a very specific conclusion regardless of what either one of us believe?

Ben:

Well, and so now we take into account depends on how

Ben:

good you and I are at Googling.

Ben:

So that's a personal factor.

Ben:

How many, how much time did you want to invest into this?

Ben:

If you wanted to invest 30 seconds, then absolutely.

Ben:

You're going to be biased towards whatever it is that you search for and

Ben:

whatever your cognitive dissonance is because you're going to click on the

Ben:

third link instead of the first link, the first link was set to set you up

Ben:

for a positive spin on this, where the third link is set up on the more

Ben:

acceptable, whatever you want to call it.

Ben:

Cognitive distance dissonance.

Ben:

Now you've got time as a factor of research, even though we have that

Ben:

information at our fingertips, even though that information is already cataloged, we

Ben:

know exactly what those pages say because we built the system that can interpret

Ben:

us as our feelings, as our emotions, as our history, as our past lives,

Ben:

as, as whatever you want to call it.

Ben:

Now you're being swayed and controlled in different manner than you intended to be.

Mat:

I would even take it a step deeper than that.

Mat:

I'd say even if the first and the third links on that front

Mat:

page give you different things, they give you different results.

Mat:

Can you guarantee that the end result is not going to still be the same,

Mat:

that the information that you're being provided, whether it's for or against your

Mat:

argument, that there's not information that's there on that page that is

Mat:

directing you towards something specific?

Ben:

Oh no, no.

Ben:

Everyone is going to be directing you.

Ben:

Well, I mean, I would imagine everyone would be directing you towards something

Ben:

because everyone wants to win the.

Ben:

There would be, uh, an inclination of basic human instinct there of

Ben:

mental survival of the fittest.

Mat:

That ties right into cognitive dissonance, too.

Mat:

You get a fight to protect what you believe.

Mat:

Right?

Ben:

Right.

Mat:

I'll even tie cognitive dissonance into a slightly different

Mat:

aspect that maybe more people would understand take your job.

Mat:

If you don't like your job.

Mat:

There's an aspect of cognitive dissonance associated with that too.

Mat:

But there's also habitual circumstance associated with that.

Mat:

So you're going to keep doing what you're doing if it's based out of habit,

Mat:

but then if you don't like what you're doing, you're going to be unhappy.

Mat:

So unhappiness is going to be an unfortunate result.

Mat:

It's going to be the result of staying in a constant state of cognitive dissonance.

Mat:

When what you're doing is in stark contrast to what you

Mat:

believe or what you want.

Ben:

So now back to the fundamental argument of what's better knowing

Ben:

everything and trying to make a decision and facing decision fatigue.

Ben:

Or taking one side and ignoring the other.

Mat:

Ignorance is bliss.

Mat:

Right?

Ben:

Man.

Ben:

That's, that's the case for some people.

Mat:

Unless you know, too much already.

Ben:

Exactly.

Mat:

But it becomes hard to ignore it, then you can't ignore it.

Ben:

Exactly.

Ben:

And then you're, you're sitting there producing a podcast about knowledge

Ben:

and understanding because you just want to get your point of view across.

Ben:

And this is unbelievable and you can't believe anything is happening like this.

Ben:

Yeah.

Ben:

Never been there before.

Ben:

Don't know what you're talking about.

Ben:

Oh my God.

Ben:

And our society accepts this.

Ben:

Not only does it accept it, encourages it all because we're

Ben:

being lazy, mentally lazy, not even physically lazy hell I'm physically.

Mat:

That ties into it too.

Mat:

You can't have a, uh, an amazingly healthy mental state.

Mat:

You can't reach your maximum potential mentally, unless

Mat:

you're there physically, too.

Mat:

I mean, you can be extremely, extremely smart, but in the end,

Mat:

there is a physical aspect of it, too, that you have endorphins that

Mat:

are running through your body.

Mat:

You have to live a healthy lifestyle to be all cognitively there.

Mat:

There's serotonin that interacts with your body in certain specific

Mat:

ways that affect memory retention.

Mat:

There's a whole bunch of stuff.

Ben:

Hold on, let me crack open my can of Coke here.

Mat:

One of those two options at the Superstore, right?

Ben:

That's right.

Ben:

It's either this or the store brand.

Ben:

So yeah, I agree with you completely physical.

Ben:

Uh, and so now I'm in a situation where I want to be kind of physically active

Ben:

or want to feel like I kind of want to be physically active logically.

Ben:

I know it makes sense emotionally.

Ben:

I think it's going to make sense once I do it, and maybe it doesn't make sense

Ben:

to me right now, but that's, that's beside the point, but I can't get

Ben:

there because our systems trapped me.

Ben:

And I don't know how to break this trap.

Mat:

I don't think it's something that one person can do, man.

Mat:

I think there's an aspect of it where people on the

Mat:

whole have to be aware of it.

Mat:

And that's kind of ties into what I was saying earlier about understanding

Mat:

how you're being manipulated.

Mat:

Is it, we were talking about how is it, is it better to, to know

Mat:

those things or is it better to not know how you're being manipulated?

Mat:

And I would argue that it's better to know how you're being manipulated

Mat:

because if more people knew it, more people would take a stand against it.

Mat:

And one of the biggest things that you can do, and you've probably heard

Mat:

this a million times is when you vote, you vote with your dollar dude.

Mat:

Like you support the institutions that do this stuff.

Mat:

Every time you pay for something, if let's say 10% of the people out there

Mat:

made a decision based on that 10% of that company's revenue would be eradicated.

Ben:

Yes.

Ben:

And I agree with you, but then here comes the challenge of

Ben:

how do you live without it?

Ben:

If you can't make the choice, that's the right way to do it.

Ben:

For instance dishwasher soap, our pod challenge, there are grocery

Ben:

stores and there are supply chains.

Ben:

Now who only sell pods.

Ben:

You get your choice between the store brand or tide or whoever

Ben:

else is the big manufacturers.

Ben:

Those, and that's it.

Ben:

So how do you battle it with the dollar there?

Ben:

You're in the store.

Ben:

You need it today.

Ben:

You can't order it from Amazon and wait the two.

Mat:

Well with that, I mean, it's, that's going to be kind of difficult.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

You got to kind of plan ahead for some of that stuff.

Mat:

You've got to, that's just a personal aspect that you have to look at.

Mat:

Like, will I need dishwasher pods in a week from now?

Mat:

Okay.

Mat:

Can I take the time while my local store that only sells whole foods

Mat:

and whole goods while they're open Monday through Friday until 8:00 PM.

Mat:

Can I make a quick run there?

Mat:

It's going to be a little bit more expensive, but Hey, at least

Mat:

I'm not adding chemicals that might, uh, they might be staying

Mat:

on my Tupperware or on my dishes.

Mat:

And I might be ingesting that when I eat food or it might be reacting with other

Mat:

chemicals in my food, or somehow being exacerbated in the microwave and becoming

Mat:

airborne and getting infused in my food.

Mat:

Doesn't matter.

Mat:

Is there something that I can do to help stop that?

Mat:

So maybe shopping at a local store to maybe get a more holistic brand

Mat:

that I don't need as much of that might be able to do the same thing.

Mat:

Maybe I can use lemon juice instead and vinegar who knows.

Ben:

That is the solution there.

Ben:

I just, I know that's the solution.

Ben:

I can feel it.

Ben:

And I'm sure there's someone else out there who can agree with me.

Ben:

That is the solution plan.

Ben:

Just a smidge bit ahead, but you're talking to a guy who can't even fucking

Ben:

get out of bed because he's too damn lazy or too damn depressed or whatever.

Ben:

And plan ahead means more work.

Ben:

I can't even plan ahead to get out of bed.

Mat:

Well, you either have.

Mat:

Have to be trained to overcome that, which most human beings

Mat:

aren't by design, let's be honest, or you have to reach a precipice.

Mat:

Most people aren't going to do something until you have to do something.

Mat:

So what's, what's your threshold.

Mat:

What's your cutoff where you're actually going to stop and say, all

Mat:

right, you know what enough is enough.

Mat:

I have to do this.

Mat:

I have to start doing this.

Mat:

I can't live like this any longer.

Mat:

I'm too damn unhappy.

Mat:

I can't continue doing this the way that I'm currently doing it.

Mat:

And I know what the answer is, but the system as a whole is holding

Mat:

me back from being able to do it.

Mat:

At what point do you reach that threshold?

Mat:

Because it's only once you take the step past that threshold, that you're

Mat:

actually going to do something.

Mat:

And it's like that with every human being, for every situation in your

Mat:

entire life, like we're going to choose the path of least resistance until we

Mat:

have something that either benefits us to a degree that we desire it more than

Mat:

anything that we're currently doing, then we're willing to take that step or that

Mat:

we're forced to physically forced to.

Mat:

Like, are you going to change your diet to help diabetes that

Mat:

you might have in the future?

Mat:

Well, are you going to wait until you have diabetes?

Mat:

Are you going to do it before that?

Mat:

Are you going to wait until you're in the hospital?

Mat:

There's a lot of people that will wait until they're in the

Mat:

hospital to make those changes.

Mat:

And even then they're only going to make the change to take the pills, to deal

Mat:

with it because that's the easier option.

Mat:

You're not going to change your lifestyle.

Mat:

And there's some people that have forms of diabetes, right.

Mat:

That that's not the answer to you.

Mat:

Can't fix it that way, but there's a lot of people that do.

Ben:

Yeah.

Ben:

I know.

Ben:

And see, that's the system that is trapping me and I absolutely hate it.

Ben:

I despise it.

Ben:

But at what point do I take that step and say, this is, this is too far.

Ben:

Well, see when you asked me initially I was questioning whether I was

Ben:

even going to be honest enough with myself to give you an answer.

Ben:

The first thing that popped in my mind was when I get physically

Ben:

incapacitated, something physically happens where my health is, whatever

Ben:

I stand up and break a bone because of no calcium and in my bones or whatever.

Ben:

The first thought was physically being incapacitated by this.

Ben:

And I don't know that that's my limit because obviously

Ben:

I do get up and do things.

Ben:

I get up to go to the bathroom.

Ben:

I get up to go outside sometimes.

Ben:

And I got up yesterday to go work at a client's location.

Ben:

So there's no clear answer to me because it's not when I'm physically injured.

Ben:

I didn't want to go to that location yesterday at all.

Ben:

Literally I was, I was telling myself, this is going to be how

Ben:

this is gonna be, hell it was hell.

Ben:

I knew what it was.

Ben:

I knew what it was when I walked into it.

Mat:

But did you have to, to make a living, like, did you have

Mat:

to, to make sure that you have a roof over your head the next day?

Mat:

Like those are equally as valid reasons to do those types of things, right?

Ben:

Right.

Ben:

Did I have to, technically not at this moment, no.

Ben:

I didn't have to, to keep a roof roof over my head.

Ben:

I don't have an inclination as to why I went other than, because

Ben:

that's what society expects of me.

Ben:

But this entire slump that I'm in is because of societal expectations.

Ben:

And that's why when most people ask me what caused this, why is this a problem?

Ben:

What is it that you feel you need to overcome?

Ben:

I can't give them an answer because it's not physical incapacitation.

Ben:

It's not because I don't want to.

Ben:

It's not because.

Ben:

I want to, cause I, I certainly don't want to get up right now.

Ben:

I don't feel the mental inclination or desire to get up.

Ben:

I I'm comfortable.

Ben:

Why would I want to get up conservation of energy?

Ben:

So what is it that I'm struggling to overcome?

Mat:

Is it just the wall that's being put up by society as a whole?

Mat:

And it's, you know, when I have this time to myself, I need to utilize it to the

Mat:

fullest of its capacity because I might not have this at another point in my life

Mat:

because it's just, maybe you've been.

Mat:

And when I say you, I mean, anybody out there that could be

Mat:

listening to this right now, maybe you're you feel like you've been

Mat:

taken advantage of at your job.

Mat:

And you're just, when you get off at the end of the day, you're just at a

Mat:

point where you can't think you just used all of your beneficial, usable

Mat:

human energy to help benefit this company or this corporation, or maybe

Mat:

you've been in a bunch of different jobs where that's happened, where

Mat:

you've given your all to that situation.

Mat:

You just been burned in the end, right?

Mat:

So it's like how many times are you run down mentally before you

Mat:

just get to that kind of state?

Ben:

I can give you a count of roughly an approximation probably

Ben:

in days, it might be easier.

Ben:

And months, or years or decades, 12 years, roughly of those 12 years, I

Ben:

also had one appendicitis that was taken out in the emergency room, by the

Ben:

way, and then was told by the company that I was working for at that time

Ben:

that I would be terminated when I got back because I was sick for too much.

Ben:

And I'm mentally drained.

Ben:

I worked 24 hour shifts.

Mat:

That's bad for your mental health and intrinsically, if you're in a bad

Mat:

mental state, like that affects you physically, too, everything goes together.

Mat:

All of your body systems too whether it's your mind, your body, your spirit, if you

Mat:

will, how you interact with the world.

Mat:

It all goes together, being healthy.

Mat:

And we were talking just a little while ago about making decisions

Mat:

for health based on how close to a critical situation are you.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

So some people there's a lot of people that they don't know that they're

Mat:

unhealthy in certain ways until they actually get into the hospital or

Mat:

they don't make that decision to stop smoking until they have the cancer,

Mat:

or they don't make that decision to change their diet until they've

Mat:

wound up in the hospital because they have stones somewhere or something.

Mat:

You look at that, and then you look at our healthcare system.

Mat:

You gotta think to yourself, is there another issue of by design here?

Mat:

Because our system is mechanistic and it treats the symptoms a lot of times,

Mat:

opposed to the actual root causes.

Mat:

A lot of times, it's just a guessing game.

Mat:

What that root cause is.

Mat:

I have a sister that went to Mayo clinic 12 times and they still couldn't

Mat:

figure out what was wrong with her.

Mat:

They kept throwing medications and trials and different workarounds on her just to

Mat:

see if, see, to see if anything worked.

Mat:

So it's like, let's see if we can throw stuff at it.

Mat:

That'll treat these symptoms to make sure that you're not

Mat:

feeling this way any longer.

Mat:

And it's like, you're one of the largest medical associated, like one of the

Mat:

most well-renowned and respected medical associations in the entire country.

Mat:

My sister had to go to you guys 12 times for you guys to just

Mat:

throw experimental applications at something you had no idea about.

Mat:

You had no idea.

Mat:

You didn't even have a baseline for anything to work off of.

Mat:

And you were just throwing medication at her.

Ben:

God, I've got a similar story to.

Ben:

My wife was diagnosed and treated for over a year of her life with Sjogren's

Ben:

disease, which you can't get rid of.

Ben:

Another doctor ran some tests on her blood work again and said, yeah,

Ben:

that's a little high, but that's not Sjogren's here's Sjogren's.

Ben:

And he showed her the blood work side by side.

Mat:

So there was a diagnosis of a disease that didn't even fit

Mat:

the definition of that disease.

Ben:

Correct.

Ben:

And my wife was treated for it.

Ben:

She was on multiple medications for it.

Ben:

And some of those medications, one of those medications in fact, caused

Ben:

her to blackout well driving and rear end a vehicle at 35 miles an hour.

Mat:

Holy cow.

Ben:

My, uh mother-in-law and father-in-law were driving back with me.

Ben:

I was in their vehicle and she was driving separate.

Ben:

I was in their vehicle and we're like, wow, this road's backed up.

Ben:

Wow.

Ben:

There's an ambulance there.

Ben:

Oh, that's why it's backed up.

Ben:

Oh, that's my van.

Ben:

That's not good.

Mat:

We'll save this conversation for another day, but I do want to present

Mat:

it because it's a very real thing.

Mat:

The pharmaceutical industry's influence on the education of those

Mat:

individuals that actually do the prescriptions and the diagnoses.

Ben:

Oh my God.

Mat:

So to a certain degree, you know, it makes sense that that situation happened.

Mat:

Like that's the way that people were taught and trained in school because the

Mat:

company that's benefiting off of that, or the companies that are benefiting off

Mat:

of that have a direct influence on that.

Ben:

Well, yeah.

Ben:

And so then it came up to a situation where we couldn't prove it, even though

Ben:

it was a side effect, we couldn't prove without a shadow of doubt that she

Ben:

blacked out due to that medication.

Ben:

Even though that's a side effect of the medication, because the doctors had not

Ben:

diagnosed her with that or said yes, or recorded it in documentation, that

Ben:

she'd been blacking out because she didn't know she'd been blacking out.

Ben:

Cause she started it a week ago and maybe it just built up to that point.

Ben:

And that was the first time she'd ever blacked out from it.

Ben:

But here's the worst thing.

Ben:

We're six years later, she still can't remember a single thing from that moment.

Ben:

It's just a gaping void.

Ben:

A rear end collision at 35 miles an hour.

Ben:

A trip in the ambulance to the hospital is a gaping void.

Mat:

That's scary, man.

Ben:

Because of this medicine for disease that she never had.

Mat:

There would have been a major lawsuit there.

Mat:

If you guys could have proved your case, not saying that's the right way to try

Mat:

to tackle all of our problems in society, because I think personally that that's

Mat:

one of the things that's wrong with it is every time there's, unless it's

Mat:

needed, unless you caused actual damage to somebody physically or mentally that they

Mat:

can't recuperate from and you've ruined the rest of their life because of that,

Mat:

you know, at that point, it's completely understandable, but everybody tends to

Mat:

jump on the train of trying to prove that I think in this situation that might have.

Mat:

You know, applicable because it's straight on accident with another vehicle you

Mat:

blacked out, you can't remember anything.

Mat:

You don't have a memory of your life.

Mat:

That by all rights, you should have had an an awake and conscious state.

Ben:

Right.

Ben:

But then they can go back to her pregnancy file and say, well, at

Ben:

one point you had glucose monitoring because your blood sugar was low when

Ben:

you were carrying a baby, which is again, completely unrelated to her

Ben:

current state of physical wellbeing.

Ben:

But because she had that gestational diabetes, they can then state, well,

Ben:

perhaps her blood sugar dipped.

Ben:

And that's why she blacked out.

Mat:

Things that make you not want to go get help when you

Mat:

actually need it sometimes.

Mat:

Right.

Mat:

Cause what if I get help for this one thing?

Mat:

And then it comes back to bite me in the butt later on.

Ben:

Yep.

Mat:

I want to do this.

Mat:

Well, we don't want you to do this job because we feel like you might

Mat:

be unfit because you had this medical episode that happened seven years

Mat:

ago and we can't guarantee that it's not going to happen again.

Ben:

Yep.

Ben:

Which comes back to seeking help for mental.

Mat:

Exactly.

Mat:

Is it a logical thing to try to get help for mental health during a time when

Mat:

everybody's being forced to be inside.

Mat:

And we can't see other human beings and we can't beneficially be outside

Mat:

and enjoy the world and have a lot of fun, like, is that depressing?

Mat:

Heck yeah, that's depressing.

Mat:

If you went and got diagnosed for it, and then you tried to be a fighter

Mat:

pilot later on, probably be declined.

Ben:

Yeah, so I'm putting it jeopardy my future because I'm

Ben:

depressed and I need assistance.

Ben:

And now, since I've been crying for help for three or six months, I'm sure

Ben:

it's been classified as major depression now versus seasonal depression.

Ben:

So my category has been upgraded because I can't.

Ben:

Oh, and by the way, I'm still not getting help, so sure you're

Ben:

upgraded, but we still can't help you.

Mat:

We've taken the time to define you as this.

Mat:

However, we can't do much more than that.

Ben:

Yep.

Ben:

All of these things lead me into the thought pattern that the us is not nearly

Ben:

the giant at once, was everything I read about the 50, 60 seventies even tell me

Ben:

that my parents grew up in a different world and we all know that definition,

Ben:

but I'm talking the fundamentals of our economy, the fundamentals of the

Ben:

mindset of watching your neighbors back, instead of watching your neighbor for the

Ben:

slightest slip, the fundamental world, they, they grew up and I'm jealous of it.

Mat:

I think a lot of things have changed some for the better and a

Mat:

lot for the worse, but definitely some for the better too majorly.

Mat:

I mean, we're always striving for progress as we continue forward as human beings.

Mat:

Right.

Mat:

It kind of goes back to, is it by design to a certain degree, because

Mat:

there's a question that exists of how badly do the people that are in charge

Mat:

of the situation as a whole and the people that are a part of the system

Mat:

want a society of free and independent, critically thinking populous citizens.

Mat:

How bad do you want that situation?

Ben:

Well, clearly the citizens have chosen not to want it.

Mat:

Is that their choice?

Mat:

That's a, this is a very, very, very critical question.

Mat:

Is that a choice that you're knowingly making or are you in a situation

Mat:

physically and mentally where there are walls that are around you

Mat:

that put you into this position?

Mat:

Is that a choice that you're actually making.

Ben:

Well, they want you to believe that it is, this is all my fault, but

Ben:

it's not, but it is, but it's not.

Ben:

And then how much blame do I shift is my entire mental wellbeing currently

Ben:

because of the mental health system?

Ben:

No.

Mat:

I think this is just me.

Mat:

I have nothing to back this up, but I think personally that the only thing

Mat:

that we have control over with respect to that, and this leads to control

Mat:

over everything as an individual.

Mat:

Actually, the only thing that we have control over in the beginning

Mat:

is when we are presented with information, we have a choice.

Mat:

Do we choose to look into that information or do we choose not to?

Mat:

And when we look into it, what, what other information are we provided with?

Mat:

Is this more credible than that?

Mat:

What tells me that this is more credible than that?

Mat:

And then it's up to you to make the choice.

Mat:

Am I going to act on that information or not?

Mat:

Am I going to do something about it?

Mat:

Am I going to change my spending habits or not, am I going to wake up earlier

Mat:

and make my bed so that the first thing that I do during the day is something

Mat:

that I accomplished so that I can go through the rest of my day, knowing

Mat:

that I started my day with something that I accomplished and maybe try to

Mat:

accomplish more things throughout the day.

Mat:

Am I going to try to broaden my understanding of what it means to be happy

Mat:

versus what happiness actually feels like?

Mat:

And what actually brings me that?

Mat:

Am I going to try to broaden my understanding of what's good for me?

Mat:

And what's not good for me?

Mat:

Am I going to try to look at what information is provided to me?

Mat:

When I do research on that to try to understand if maybe my

Mat:

definition is being manipulated.

Mat:

So I think the choice that we all have is what are you going to do with

Mat:

the information that you're provided?

Ben:

That is a good question, but what I want to do versus what I can

Ben:

actually achieve right now is so low that I don't know where the bounds are.

Mat:

I do truly believe that no matter how caught in that situation, anybody feels

Mat:

they are, that you do still have options.

Mat:

So I can, instead of going to the big wall or the, uh, the giant Mart to get

Mat:

your groceries, Maybe you can go down the road to, I would say Aldi, I'm going to

Mat:

put them in a positive light here because they might have products that are organic.

Mat:

They might have things that are on the cheap end, right?

Mat:

It might actually be more cost-effective to go to a different

Mat:

store rather than a big chain store.

Mat:

They might have not saying that Aldi isn't a big chain store, but they might

Mat:

have tendencies, which might be a little bit better for you as a human being.

Mat:

It's up to you to make that determination, right?

Mat:

I'm not saying that you should go to this store over that store.

Mat:

You should not shop at that store.

Mat:

You should not shop at that store.

Mat:

Make that decision yourself.

Mat:

Like, are you worried about the increased cost?

Mat:

From living a healthier lifestyle.

Mat:

And are there other options or opportunities that are within your

Mat:

spending ability to be able to do that?

Mat:

Even if it's just a couple things a day, if you augment 25% of your diet

Mat:

to be as healthy as you possibly can, that's a 25% increase for you as a

Mat:

human being for your physical and mental wellbeing for the rest of your life.

Ben:

Oh, and I agree, but then I come to the situation where all of these

Ben:

things take time to prepare or to set up or to enjoy because you need to

Ben:

wash spinach, you need to wash lettuce.

Ben:

Okay.

Ben:

So you can wash it and then put it in the fridge as one big batch.

Ben:

Sure.

Ben:

But then spinach wilts, because for me, I would rather not eat than get

Ben:

up and go find something to eat.

Ben:

So I wait for dinner and at dinner I want protein because I'm hungry.

Ben:

I want something that's going to last.

Ben:

We all choose these things.

Ben:

And I agree that I am making choices, but I also agree that unfortunately,

Ben:

I don't know how to change my choices and I've always been in control.

Ben:

I'm a control freak, but I have literally lost my drive.

Mat:

I feel very similar with respect to the protein aspect.

Mat:

I mean, I try to get three meals in a day.

Mat:

Right.

Mat:

But it's on the whole, I feel like I probably eat a little

Mat:

bit too much meat than I should.

Mat:

I feel like there's a social stigma associated with that.

Mat:

That's just my own personal belief.

Mat:

I agree with you.

Mat:

And I definitely way too much, meat.

Mat:

There's a whole industry around that that we might not even get into right now.

Ben:

You mean that it's cheaper to sell it than it is.

Ben:

It costs less to sell it than what it costs to produce.

Mat:

Well, the, just everything that goes into it.

Mat:

So how much work, how much effort, how much money goes into making that

Mat:

versus what you could live off of off of a couple of acres of land?

Mat:

You know what I mean?

Mat:

I'm no one to talk.

Mat:

I love meat, man.

Mat:

I love eating my bacon.

Mat:

I was just telling you a little while ago, I'm about to go make a pack of bacon, some

Mat:

sausage fry up some eggs and just have a, a good breakfast at lunchtime here.

Mat:

But in the end, is that necessary?

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

Can I make a delicious food?

Mat:

That's extremely healthy for me that might not raise certain things in my

Mat:

blood that are not very beneficial for me.

Mat:

Can I live a healthier lifestyle and still enjoy what I'm eating for sure.

Mat:

Could I get a lot more out of maybe having my own garden on my own land

Mat:

here and just eating off of that every year and canning stuff and putting

Mat:

stuff away for the winter time?

Mat:

Heck yeah, you can put away a lot of food if he can it, it doesn't take

Mat:

that much land to support a couple of human beings in a household, but it

Mat:

does to support the animal livestock.

Mat:

It takes a lot of.

Mat:

Then you've got the issues of lobbying too.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

So what was it?

Mat:

One of the senior board members on a major pharmaceutical corporation that's

Mat:

currently funding, a major vaccine is, um, from one of their panel members is

Mat:

also on the board for the FDA, right?

Ben:

Something like that.

Ben:

I remember hearing something like that.

Mat:

Is that not a conflict of interest that clearly happens too,

Mat:

in that situation, like there's conflicts of interest that happen

Mat:

within that industry potentially.

Ben:

Right.

Ben:

So then, then I start to dig into, okay, who can make these changes?

Ben:

Is it because we live in a capitalist environment?

Ben:

I don't think so.

Ben:

I think it's because we allow politicians to be influenced and that's

Ben:

because we as humans want more money.

Mat:

That should be life in prison.

Mat:

If you vote to pass bills a certain way associated with certain, certain

Mat:

things, doesn't matter whether it's smoking or other bills that go through.

Mat:

If you vote a certain way, and it is found that you have received funding

Mat:

in any way, shape or form or support from that industry, it doesn't matter

Mat:

if it's for or against the bill.

Mat:

It doesn't matter which direction it is.

Mat:

If you receive funding from an individual or an entity that is in any way, shape

Mat:

or form associated with that first and foremost, you should lose your positioning

Mat:

government 150 freaking percent.

Mat:

Then there should be an investigation into how deep did that actually go.

Mat:

And depending on the severity of it, you should probably spend life in prison

Mat:

because those decisions that you're making as an individual you're meant to

Mat:

represent the people, not a corporation or a company, and you're changing laws

Mat:

for millions of people, your actions are influencing millions of people.

Ben:

They're putting an entire industry, a $1.9 billion industry, by the way, Out

Ben:

of business vape shops cannot stay in business because they don't have juice.

Mat:

Another question that comes to my mind is what percentage, what

Mat:

percentage of the vape industry does the smoking industry control?

Mat:

And is, is that a very, very small portion and is that a reason why

Mat:

they're so vehemently against it?

Mat:

Right.

Mat:

Clearly the vaping industry would be cutting in on the

Mat:

smoking industires action.

Mat:

And if they are able to get a large market share to, to control that

Mat:

industry as well and make profit off of that, that makes sense.

Ben:

They're not.

Ben:

So they've been trying since 2015 to, uh, expand the growth of Juul pots because the

Ben:

tobacco industry is backing disposable.

Mat:

Of course.

Mat:

Of course.

Ben:

Of course.

Mat:

Planned obsolescence, right?

Ben:

Yeah.

Ben:

Yup.

Ben:

The, the tobacco industry is backing the disposable side of vaping.

Ben:

There's an

Mat:

interesting connection that I'd like to draw here.

Mat:

It deals with government intrinsically here.

Mat:

So if you're backing the disposable aspect of it, you're backing the replacement

Mat:

you're you're backing dependency.

Mat:

So if you want to keep using Juul or any other disposable product out there, if you

Mat:

want to keep using a disposable product.

Mat:

You're reliant on that entity, right?

Mat:

Yep.

Mat:

How might that play into government?

Mat:

What other aspects of government are people reliant on?

Mat:

And how does that force control?

Ben:

I guess it depends on how macro you want to go.

Ben:

And my first thought is the IRS.

Mat:

I was thinking like Medicare or something like that.

Ben:

I know, I know, I know you were thinking police departments or

Ben:

kind of local, moderate government, but I'm looking at it from a big

Ben:

picture of, there are millions of Americans every year who rely on a

Ben:

refund check from the IRS to survive.

Mat:

I would agree with that.

Mat:

There's an aspect of that that goes into tax deductions associated

Mat:

with more children, right?

Mat:

Oh yeah.

Mat:

If somebody relies on you for something, they can, you control them.

Mat:

If, if you are reliant on a system, it doesn't matter what that system is.

Mat:

Sounding like the matrix here.

Mat:

If you are reliant on a system, that system controls you, it

Mat:

makes the decisions for you.

Mat:

It doesn't matter what it is.

Mat:

Doesn't matter if it's food health care.

Mat:

It doesn't matter if it's jobs, whatever that system is.

Mat:

If you rely on that system, it controls you because you're

Mat:

relying on it for a specific.

Mat:

And if they use that reason to their advantage, they can make you do whatever

Mat:

you need to do or whatever they want you to do in order to come to the

Mat:

decision that if you don't do this, then this is going to be taken away

Mat:

from you because you rely on this.

Mat:

You can't afford to have that be taken away from you.

Ben:

Which comes back to the government and who's making the final decision.

Ben:

And why are politicians making those final decisions that benefit the

Ben:

tobacco company in the beginning?

Mat:

There's a lot of people that are reliant on the vaping

Mat:

industry to get off of cigarettes.

Ben:

Oh yes.

Ben:

And the FDA is being taken to court by several companies already.

Ben:

Right now, did you know there's actually a law against government controlling

Ben:

an industry so closely, such as like that to the point where they can

Ben:

control the livelihood of businesses.

Mat:

So, so what you're telling me is that forced mandates that cut businesses,

Mat:

populations from actually getting people in there to do commerce with them is

Mat:

hurting them and that could be illegal?

Ben:

It is illegal.

Ben:

Yeah.

Mat:

How ironic to our current situation.

Ben:

I know it's almost like we thought about that.

Ben:

Look at Microsoft.

Ben:

How much trouble did they get in for having, uh, internet Explorer

Ben:

bundled with Microsoft windows?

Mat:

Um, man, my mind is wanting to take me in a completely different

Mat:

direction since you brought up Microsoft, but we're not going to go there.

About the Podcast

Show artwork for Cricket's Campfire
Cricket's Campfire
Gather round where we discuss tales from lands far and near, science in simple terms, philosophy, technology, and interview experts in their respective fields! Join our discord and chat: https://discord.gg/j3pWb3v83y

About your hosts

Profile picture for Ben Beach

Ben Beach

Ben has a wonderful, supportive wife who helps keep him in line. He and his wife have two children who are sometimes full of more energy than any human being is supposed to be full of! Both are boys, 7 and 11. Ben's passion is learning new things, almost all the time! Most of the time he spends his energy interested in technology, science, philosophy, psychology, and more.
Profile picture for Margot Lewis

Margot Lewis

Who are you and how did you find me??

Margot is a writer tasked with making sense out of Ben's scripts, and is always pestering him to go faster.
Profile picture for Mat Petersen

Mat Petersen

Mathematician / Philosopher with a knack for photography, a hunger for physics and a propensity for the strange.